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Archive-name: misc-kids/joggers/part1 Posting-Frequency: monthly Last-Modified: June 15, 1994 Version: 1.3 Please find the Misc.Kids Jogger FAQ attached. When I started on my quest for information a few years ago, I didn't realize there were so many things to consider and so many different joggers available. This is fairly long because a lot of the mail I got was anecdotal. The mail included came from people on the Dead Runners Society List, Misc.kids and rec.running. I have not included names and e-mail addresses of the contributors because I got some of this information in chunks from others who had requested information and send their collections on without attributions. For consistency, I have deleted all attributions. You will find in the following text: 1) A summary of the kinds of things you might want to consider when buying a jogger 2) An index of the joggers discussed 3) General opinion-type comments (these are also scattered through the articles on various joggers 4) An article or two on when to put a baby in a jogger (tips on carrying small children scattered throughout). I finally bought a jogger in August of '93. I got the Huffy from JC Penney. I will add my own article in the section that deals with Huffy's. Cindy Mitchell University of Maine System Computing and Data Processing Service cindy@saturn.caps.maine.edu ****************************************************** Things to Consider When Buying a Jogger ---------------------------------------------------- 1) Construction 2) Weight (if you're planning to race, this may be a consideration) 3) safety (A few joggers don't have "wheel wings" that will keep little hands away from the wheels) 4) brakes (Many don't have any kind of brake other than to use one of the traps around a wheel) 5) price (there's a huge variation in price) 6) collapsibility (Will it fit in your car?) 7) set up (Once collapsed will it go back together without a tool box?) 8) seat set-up as suitableness for a child's age (I'll go into this more in my write-up on the Huffy). ****************************************************** **************************************** Index of Models Discussed ------------------- Motiv Joggette/Jog'r Cycle Baby Jogger/Racing Strollers Inc. Burley bike trailer/jogger JC Penney/Huffy Kidcart Runabout MOTIV JOGGETTE/JOG'R CYCLE ---------------------- (Cindy's note: the Joggette is no longer available. The most recent news I got was that MOTIV was coming out with an even newer model than the JOG'R CYCLE which last fall was priced at $118 plus shipping. I've included all the info given me about the Joggette and Jog'r Cycle so you can form an opinion of Motiv's products). Motiv Sports Inc. 14211 Yorba St. Suite 100 Tustin, CA 92680 (714) 731-6011 ***************************************** Following is the recommendation for the Motiv Joggette I saved from rec.running some time ago. I called the company and they said they don't take credit cards, I had to mail them a personal check, they waited a few days for it to clear, then they sent me the Joggette. I'd say I got it about 2 to 2 1/2 weeks after I mailed them my check, and it had to come from the West coast to the East Coast. I've been quite pleased with it; it was certainly worth the 89.50 I paid. I believe the reason it's substantially cheaper than the real Baby Jogger brand is because it's assembled in Mexico, so if you are really heavy into buying American, don't. Oh, yes, and when I first called them they were out of stock at the time and they took my name and phone number and after a few weeks they called me back and said to send the money. Recommendation pulled from the net follows: ---------------------------------------------------- Motiv Joggette: This is the one you don't seem to have heard about. It's also the one we purchased. It's main selling feature is that it is CHEAP ($79 - 100)! But, I really don't think it gives up anything in performance. Mainly, it's just not painted as well, not widely marketed yet, etc. I ran into one of these at a race in southern Arizona last fall. I asked the owners about it. They (both the man and woman) said they loved it - ran in lots of races with it, etc. I tried it out for a couple of minutes and thought it was great. In the West it's available at at least one chain store - Price Club. There may be a few of these in the East now or at least I think there will be soon. There aren't any in NY yet. (Also you need to be a state employee of fed. credit union member to join Price Club.) In any case, in the West you can get Joggette's at Price Clubs and maybe some other stores for about $100 (my sister-in-law got one at a Phoenix Price Club for $99). I got ours by calling Motiv High Performance Bicycles(a little company in Calif.) directly. They agreed to sell me one for $79 plus ~$13 UPS shipping. It came in about a week and we've used it happily a few times since. A friend of mine here just ordered one for himself. He said he had to do a little bit of convincing to get them to sell him one directly - they appear to be selling more now through third party catalogs at jacked up prices or something. But, in the end, they did give him the same deal they gave me. I was very wary of the price. Price wasn't a major concern to me - we'd have been happy to pay $300 if I thought that I'd get something better. I couldn't believe that something for $79 could compare favorably with the $279 ones. But, it really seems like the differences are mainly cosmetic. Actually, I must say that I do believe that the Baby Jogger is a little bit better made than the Joggette. But it seems to me to be a bit of wasted quality. The thing doesn't have to last 50,000 miles. I figure 20- 30 miles a week for a few years at most. I'm pretty sure the Joggette can handle that. It's got a good sturdy frame. Basic 20" bicycle wheels. Rolls very smoothly, turns well, etc. Being in frigid Ithaca, NY, with a very young baby (3 mo.) we've only taken it out about 5 times so far. But, it's been all I could ask for. It's quite easy to push and you can even run fairly fast with it (I did a couple of 5:45 miles with it without much trouble, though I don't think it'd be a good idea to go much faster. It felt like it might get a little unstable - say if you hit a small rock or something you might have a hard time keeping it under control). In any case, I'd recommend the Joggette. I can't say that I'm sure the others aren't better, but they really don't seem like it to me. The Joggette comes with a canopy and a pouch/pocket for holding a water bottle or hat or shirt or whatever. ************************************************* Low and behold my Jog R` Cycle (JRC) arrived last night. Shortly after sending you a message I called Motiv and they called the warehouse. Seems my order fell through the cracks. The warehouse is ~20 minutes from my home so they had someone hand deliver it. I tipped the delivery guy a couple bucks so it cost me exactly $120.00. The instructions were not included! Assembly was pretty much straight forward but there are 2 parts left over (no kidding). One may be a rubber stopper only used for packing and the other is a pair of straps hooked to the lower brace just above the rear axle. I'll call Motiv latter today. Two negatives come quickly to mind. There is no brake and the maximum recommended speed is 10 miles per hour. I will not exceed the speed limit while jogging but as a bike trailer 10 mi/hr is rather slow. The maximum weight is 40 lbs but I should get quite a bit of use before Max (now 13 months) exceeds that. If you plan to drive to a jogging path you should know that you will need a Phillips head screwdriver, a small wrench, most of your trunk space and a good 10 minutes to break the JRC down (another 10 to put it back together). As I was leaving work last night I ran into a guy that had a bike trailer/jogger combination that he paid ~$450.00 for. It looked like a tent on wheels. It weighs 16 lbs empty (the JRC weighs 30) and he had two kids in it weighing ~30 lbs each. He said it broke down in 5 minutes. [Cindy's note: see section on Burley bike trailer/jogger for more info on this] The technology of the $450 model was impressive (aircraft aluminum frame, quick release hubs, graphite components etc..). The technology of the JRC reminds me of a 1969 Huffy. For the money the JRC is a good deal. I think it will serve me well as a jogger and even as a trailer for an occasional "cruise" on the bike path. If money were not an issue.... ************************************************** My wife and I have the Motiv version that we bought at Price Club for $120 or $130 or something. Not being sure how much we would like or use such a thing, we went for the least expensive one. And probably the cheapest one, as well. It has various rust spots after a year. I actually did some minor disassembly and got it into the back of our small station, but I'm not sure if I could repeat the activity. Gee, I'm afraid I may not be much help. You'll probably have to ask those difficult questions like What do I want this for? How much do I think I will use it? How much am I willing to pay? What features (canopy, compactness, foldability, etc.) are important? etc. *************************************************** +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ BABY JOGGER/RACING STROLLERS inc ---------- Baby Jogger Racing Strollers, Inc. 1-800-548-7230 I have used only the Baby Jogger and not tried the others. I have had both the single and twinner versions. Stability and ease of use were excellent. I have also tried running with an ordinary stroller (Aprica) before I got the jogging stroller. This worked OK for me but my husband couldn't get used to running between the wheels. The Baby Jogger is far superior in this regard. Both my husband and I found it comfortable to run with. It negotiates curbs, corners, and rough terrain very well. Although I haven't tried riding in it myself, the kids seem to love it. My son started at about 3 months old and did just fine. I put him in a felt seat made for shopping cart use that worked great for keeping him in one place. My version did not have a canopy but I think its possible to get one now. I think this is important to have. Also, mine do not collapse and are impossible to get into a car. We strapped ours to our bicycle rack when necessary but this was a real pain. Its quite heavy and rather ungainly to handle. GET ONE THAT COLLAPSES!!! We have only the twinner now and use it primarily for long neighborhood walks. The kids are 3 and 5 now and still love it. We don't run with it because we live in a very hilly area and the children together now weigh about 70 pounds not to mention the weight of a stroller. It would still work fine if we had a flat place to run. Except for the portability issue, we were very satisfied. The strollers are very expensive new but seem to have good resale. We easily sold our original one child model. *********************************************** I examined brochures for 4 different running strollers and tried out 2 of 'em. Here in Ithaca though, there aren't many around. -- Baby Jogger - the most well known, seems to be the one I see most often. But, at $280, seems a bit expensive for what you get. My feeling is that part of what you pay for with the Baby Jogger is the nice chrome finish, lots of ads, etc. I've tried it and it's very nice. But it really didn't seem any better than the Joggette below in performance. It's shinier and maybe a bit prettier but has even fewer basic features - no handle height adjustment, no included canopy or basket or pouch. -- Runabout - After looking at the brochure for the Runabout, I think I'd have chosen it over the Baby Jogger - mainly since it has an adjustable height handle (my wife runs also) and since it collapses a bit smaller than the Baby Jogger, I think. I thought it was fairly ugly compared to the Baby Jogger but it seemed like it might be a bit better. (it's about the same price as the Baby Jogger - $289 or so or more for fancier versions) -- 3 Wheel Wonder: This one is a bit mysterious. When I sent for their brochure they sent me a regular snapshot print (no glossy brochure) of the stroller and a page listing its features. What's mysterious is that the Wonder looks VERY much like the Joggette listed below. The seat and frame look identical. The listed features, I think, were slightly different, but it really looks to me like they at least share some major parts. Maybe the 3 Wheel Wonder people buy the main pieces from Motiv and put together their own configuration. But, at ~ $159-189 (I forget - the info is at home), they charge a lot more than Motiv. *************************************************** We have a Baby Jogger and love it. Around here, the Baby Jogger is the only one you EVER see being used (both for training and large 10Ks with 10,000+ runners). Its easy to use, comfortable (I suppose, I don't fit in it to try it out :-)) and stable. In fact, I mounted a Vetta bicycle computer on it. Unfortunately, It doesn't fold down real small unless you remove the wheels which requires an oddball sized wrench - the one that came with the trailer didn't fit. I'm an ex-mechanic with over $15k of tools and I STILL don't have anything but a crescent wrench that fits correctly. Other than that, the quality is superb. Our son is now 9 months. We started him at about 6 months also. He still kinda slumps down and ALWAYS falls asleep. Its GREAT :-O Seems no one wants to sell one used. I also ran into this when I wanted a Burley trailer for biking (I ride, the SO runs). *************************************************** I can't answer about the others, but I have a Baby Jogger and it works very well. My son liked it when he didn't like a regular stroller - I guess because we went fast. I saw someone with the 3 wheel wonder at a race and she had logged a lot of miles with it and liked it, but it was heavier. Possibly more stable because the child sat lower. We have had no spills, but we always use a bicycle helmet. I would recommend you purchase one with the stroller. We didn't get ours till my son was almost 1. I regret this because we could have had much more flexibility earlier on (running together, not needing the other spouse to be home, etc.) But the niece of a friend of mine had her baby in one at about 6 weeks and I have seen many children in them younger than 6 months. But, I'd say choose your courses more carefully till the child reaches the age of loving the bumps. And, again, buy a helmet and use it. Oh, check the discount baby stores and some bike stores...they are often cheaper than mail order. I paid $228 for mine new at a discount baby store. I find it a major hassle that is doesn't collapse. It doesn't even fit in the back of my small blazer with the back wheels on. But, the hot tip is to get good at taking the back wheels off, too. I know a couple who cheerfully do this and put it in the trunk of their compact car. We have a bike lock for it that allows us to lock down the back of my Blazer or lock it up outside a coffee house in running distance. Of course, these have to be moderately safe places. I believe there is some new, lightweight collapsible jogging stroller available, but I think it costs more than the BJ. I know folks who put them on the racks on top of their cars, but you might want to cover the stuff on the handle to make sure it doesn't abrade away. If you are ALWAYS driving to run, I'd recommend spending extra for collapsibility. If you own a minivan or will just be transporting to weekend races or runs "away from it all" (our situation), I'd say it's probably no worse than getting used to traveling with all the stuff you want for a baby anyway. Oh, yes, remember that you will need warmer clothes for the baby than for you! I'd consider one of those nifty "polar" suits in a large size to go over everything for a little baby. (This is probably the sort of a nag you'll get from your parents anyway, sorry.) You can just pop it over whatever the kid has on at the time. We have a special "skinny" hat we put on under the helmet for morning runs (to keep ears warm). ************************************************* I have been using a Baby Jogger for 6 years now. My 6yr old still occasionally takes a ride, and my 2 year old loves it. The one I have is borrowed, and we are moving, so I faced the prospect of buying one. The model I have been been using is the "Walkabout" from Racing Strollers. It is the same as the original Baby Jogger, except it has smaller wheels. I have been extremely satisfied. I have probably put over 1000 miles on it, a good bit of it with a kid over 50 lbs, and it is as good as new. It will last through several more children (not mine). I compared the Huffy, one by Gerry, and another couple of less expensive models, hoping that I could get away with $149 instead of $249 (I have not been able to look at a 3 Wheel Wonder so I can't comment on it.) In my opinion, I would be sorry if I got anything other than a real Baby Jogger. Just compare how it is put together, what holds the wheels on, how strong the fabric of the seat is, etc. Many of the ones I looked at in stores already had the fabric torn from shelf wear, and the front wheel already wobbled. Given that these things are like gold on the resale market (how many times to we see postings about "anyone have one for sale?", and we never see "anybody want to buy my jogger?") I think scrimping here would be a false savings. *********************************************** I have one. The brand of mine is "Baby Jogger". I like it quite alot. I dare say it's made my wife a fan of running (because I can take Matthew when I go :-)). Mine has a capacity of 40-50 pounds... I haven't heard of ones with a higher capasity than that, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. Anyway, I don't know if this is much help... but I really do like mine, and Matthew enjoy's it alot. It seems very durable... I got it at a cut rate from a bike shop that rented them over the summer and wanted to get rid of them in the fall. So before you buy one new you might consider looking around to see if someone has a used one. ************************************************* I strongly recommend you consider nothing but the line made by Racing Strollers. They advertise in the back of most running magazines so you can easily get their catalog, and Road Runner Sports sells one of their models (the one I have). Nothing else is made anywhere near as sturdily, which is critical when carrying a heavier child. I used a borrowed one for 4 years (it was on its fourth child), and when I had to return that one, I bought one ($225 from RRS). I still regularly carry my 35 lbs 3 year old, and still occasionally take my 65 lbs 6 year old. The stuff made by other companies (like Huffy or Gerry, etc. that you might see in a Toys R Us or a bike store just do not compare. I think at least one of the models of Racing Strollers goes to 75 lbs (I think mine does). The difference in price is negligible when you ammortize it over the number of times you will use it, and the life time of a good running stroller will exceed the childhood of several kids. *********************************************** We have 2 of the brand name "Baby Jogger" and have been quite happy. We bought the first nearly 7 years ago when they were the only ones on the market. My older daughter "participated" in her first race at 2 months old (my husband pushed her and we ran together). With the birth of the second daughter 2 2/3 years later, we purchased a "Baby Jogger Twinner" which holds 2 children. My husband pushed both of them in a race when the second child was 2 months old. Although he started at the rear of the lineup as that race required, he passed me at 1 1/2 mile. Now that our children are nearly 7 and 4, and they weigh a combined 80 pounds (plus clothes and snacks), we seldom push them both on the hilly terrain we have here in Monument, CO. We do occasionally push them if we drive to a relatively flat trail or are doing a rather long walk when the younger one needs a nap. I'll sometimes still take the 4yo along for a run for extra strength training. Those things go anywhere and are quite easy to handle. Our single one has been great everywhere from beaches to steep mountain trails (that are wide enough to accommodate it). One time when I was away on business, my husband pushed the older daughter (then 1) most of the way up Pikes' Peak in it. Sorry that I can't compare and contrast it with other models. I suggest looking at the advertisements in the back of Runners' WOrld. The companies all have 800 nos and offer to send free info and price lists. ************************************************** The nice ones -- the originals, made by a company in Yakima, Washington, and actually called "Baby Jogger" -- are probably the best, but are expensive (around $300). The newest of their line , the "Baby Jogger II," is very light and has quick release wheels. The quick release wheels is probably the feature that best differentiates the good ones from the rest; lacking this, one needs a crescent wrench to get the wheels off for transporting the thing in the trunk of a car. Another good thing to look for is ball bearings in the wheels. One thing that the original baby jogger company offers is "factory seconds" -- joggers with some minor blemish but no structural problems. I believe the Baby Jogger II factory second was around $170, plus shipping. The downside to this was the long waiting list (at least 6 weeks, I believe). Gerry also makes some decent-looking joggers. I've seen some by Huffy, which seemed okay but a little heavy. The other possibility is any of the many cheap imitations around. I saw one built buy a company called Motiv that was okay; it was selling at a local Schwinn shop for $129, and at a "members only" club -- Sam's Club -- here in Ohio for $75. This thing would not be convenient for lugging around in your trunk a lot, and is heavier than the nice ones, but is actually surprisingly decent for the money. I have looked for quite a while for a used baby jogger, to no avail. I don't know what happens to them when a kid outgrows it -- you'd think people would like to unload them -- but I've tried via the net and thru newspaper classifieds with no luck. Hope some of this was helpful.... ********************************************** I have the original Baby Jogger; we got ours through Road Runner Sports running equipment mail order house. If you are a member of their preferred customer club (~$20 to join, I think) you get 5% off. Also, for every dollar you spend, you get scrip to buy items from the catalog. My advice would be to try one before you buy to make sure that Michael will ride in it. I have heard stories of children who started at > 1 yr and didn't like it. We have a friend who wanted to use ours, and their kid (1 yr) wouldn't sit in it. It may have been a lack of trying enough on their part, but something you might want to be aware of before spending several hundred dollars. I started Matthew in it at about three months. He usually really likes riding and sitting in it. And, he is quiet too. We get great smiles from all kinds of people who see us jogging around the neighborhood. Especially the mothers who are walking their kids in a convential stroller with tiny wheels. Even when it is warm, I put a stocking cap on his head and cover up as much skin as possible, including mittens if it is below even 50 degrees F or so or windy, otherwise his hands get pretty cold. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Continued.... Archive-name: misc-kids/joggers/part2 Posting-Frequency: monthly Last-Modified: June 15, 1994 Version: 1.3 BURLEY BIKE TRAILER/JOGGER ---------------------- We have a 7 month old right now. He was born in December and I knew I wanted a jogger, so I went out looking. I decided to get a Burley bike trailer with a jogger attachment. Even though this was the most expensive choice, I am VERY satisfied with my choice. The unit is great for pulling behind a bike, (up to 45 mph down hill so far) and it quickly converts to a jogger by turning a wing nut which drops the front wheel (which is attached to the trailer tongue). The front wheel is about 8 inches in diameter and pivots, so you can turn much easier than the baby joggers with fixed front wheel. The Burley fits two kids, or one kid and lots of groceries. It is rated for 100 pounds of load. We often ride our bikes to the store, stroll through the store with the stroller, buy groceries and ride home again. We purchased a double fly which has a screen, or a plastic see through cover. My wife recently ran a 5 K and it was pouring rain. Our baby was the ONLY person at the race to stay warm and dry. The Burley also completely collapses and the wheels come off. My wife can collapse the trailer and have it in the trunk in less than 60 seconds. I was concerned about the pivot wheel on the front being stable enough to run at high speeds (certainly a relative term). You know what I mean if you have ever run with a shopping cart. Well we take it out when we rollerblade, and push it at 10-12 miles per hour. This is a 6 to 5 minute pace! I will go out on a limb and say that it appears very stable. There is one more thing that I need to say that has been very important to us thus far. The trailer is big enough to put a car seat in. So we bundle him up inside (when it is cold) and just set the car seat in. When he was younger (2 months old) he slept most of the time, then we would come home and transfer him to his bed. So I can go for a run any time, day or night. If I am tending and I am the only one home, and the baby is asleep, I just scoop him up, put him in the jogger in his car seat, go for a 5 or 10 miler, come home and put him back in bed, and he never woke up! I have already mentioned that it will hold 2 kids, or 100 pounds. We would like to go on a long, (cross country) bike trip, and we will most likely use the trailer also. This was a hard decision to make when we bought it. It was $450.00 out the door with the jogger kit, but it is the best decision I have made in a long time. We are very pleased with this product. (did I mention that it collapses to about 7 inches high?) ********************************************* I think Burley is a far better company with much higher quality stuff. The people I know with trailers, including Seana Hogan a two time winner of the "Race Across America" and proud producer of a now 2yr old boy. She was helping at a ride I did. She went out with her kid in the trailer to do the biggest hills of the ride. The company itself has many good policies I like to support when I can. But the bottome line is that a Burley trailer will work better for longer than a Huffy. ********************************************** ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HUFFY/JC PENNEY -- Supposedly can carry up to 50 pounds, I think, so certainly until Erica is 6 or so (or longer if you have more young'uns) -- Breaks down by pulling 3 pins and releasing a strap. Back wheels come off. of you use the canopy, it has to come off, also. Should fit in a standard trunk. It takes up the whole width of the trunk, but you can squeeze other things into the trunk. -- Comes with a canopy, side wings, splash guard on front. Back wheels can be positioned at 2 different widths (supposedly one for racing, one for walking). There's a pocket for storing food, etc. -- Front wheel does NOT pivot. There are NO brakes, just a strap. So that's a drawback when using it as a stroller, since it rolls so easily. Because front wheel does not pivot, you probably can't rig it up to tow behind a bike. -- When you think about it, there aren't that many moving parts, so you'll probably base your decision on how solidly it looks built, whether you like how it seats a child, or whether you desire some of the other features. -- Cost is $159 + tax and shipping. $249 for the 2- seater. I got it through JC PENNEY general catalog. It's possible they have more models in their specialty catalogs. It's also possible that HUFFY sells different models. ********************************************* I bought a baby stroller a couple of years ago. I bought it from a local store but the same model is advertised in the back of Runners World. I think the name of the one I bought is the "easy strider". I will check the name when I go home tonight. It was cheaper the "the baby jogger" and had a bigger place for the child to go. I wanted to be able to use mine for a long time and the baby jogger was smaller. Also, the easy strider is easier to take apart (no tools). But, it doesn't fold down as small. I have been really happy with mine and my kids love it. I bought mine at the "Sports Authority" store. I don't know if you have those in CANADA or not. Please let me know if you have any questions. I checked on the info for the baby jogger. It is called the "Huffy Easy Strider" There is also a phone number on it 612-935-6110. It might be a version of the one you were talking about that converts into a bike trailer. I have seen adds for it and it look vary similar. I have had to call the number twice. When I first bought it a part was missing from the stroller and I didn't tighten a screw tight enough and it fell out. Both times they were very helpful and quick to respond. Let me know what you end up doing. I would really like to hear if you get the bike trailer one. *********************************************** Cindy Makes the Commitment and Finally Buys a Jogger. After much hemming and hawing and soul searching, I bought the Huffy through JC Penney. My reasoning followed the lines of 1) I didn't want to spend $300 since my daughter is 2.75 already and I didn't/don't know if there would be a number 2. (More waffling. I wish there was an Olympic event for waffling). 2) I run at noon (at work), so didn't want to make a big investment in something I may not use that often. I really just wanted the flexibility to run after work if necessary (and on weekends). 3) The sidewalks are awful here and I could barely push the Graco stroller, and there are some nice trails I wanted to walk on. 4) The Baby Jogger wouldn't fit in either of our cars. I have used the Baby Jogger a couple of times and found it to be an really nice jogger. After owning the Huffy for a month, I can see where the Baby Jogger is made better, though I'd have to stretch some to justify nearly double the price. The collapsibility was a big issue for me, and the Huffy is really easy to collapse. Just remove two cotter pins to remove the back wheels, then loosen a strap to fold the stroller up. It fits into the trunk of my 89 Toyota Camry Sedan. I also like the wings that Huffy puts over the wheels to keep little fingers out. I say that then last night my daughter was leaning forward running her finger nail on the moving front wheel...sigh... The Huffy is heavier, though not hugely noticeably, and the handle is a tad higher. Someone shorter than me (5'2") might find this a drawback. The seat is made very well, and Erica finds it comfortable. No brakes. Comes with canopy. I think if I were to run every day with the jogger, I would borrow both the Baby Jogger and a Huffy and use them for a week each for a real comparison. But, I think anyone would be happy with the Huffy if economics were the driving issue. One more thing: I think the Baby Joggers seat style (much more slanted back) is much better for a tiny baby. I really like the more upright seat of the Huffy for my daughter though. She's happier in the Huffy than the Jogger because she felt like she was lying back to far. She kept straining her neck up. Also, Erica likes being able to rest her feet on the platform the Huffy provides and the Jogger doesn't. There is a foot rest sort of deal on the Baby Jogger but it's not accessible to shorter children. October 16, 1993 A note about the Huffy. Despite the fact that I keep the Huffy inside in the garage and haven't used it in the rain, the darned thing is rusting. The bolts are rusted and the foot rest is rusting. I'm planning to call Huffy, but haven't done it yet. ******************************************** +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ KIDCART ------- We got KidCart 2 years ago. At the time it was the only one that didn't require you to use a wrench to disassemble it in order to fold it up, get it into your trunk, get it out and use it. ************************************************* ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ RUNABOUT -------- Runabout UNI-USA, Inc. 1-800-832-2376 I threw a baby shower for a friend who runs and a group of 25-30 of us chipped in and bought the Runabout for her. Since they cost about $300 it makes it easier if you share the costs. They do convert from single to tandem for a modest sum and I know someone who uses the tandem version which they prefer to the kind that sit the kids next to each other (this one sits one kid in front of the other). The idea is, unless the kids are the same age/weight it will be imbalanced if they are side by side. The Runabout seems very sturdy and is super easy to disassemble. Of course I did it without also trying to hold a wiggling baby. It seems very stable and smooth riding. The support looks better than the sling seat the Baby Jogger has. Oh, in terms of how small, they had a icture of it in the hatchback of some small sporty car like the rx7. One thing about the runabout--no brakes. It *does* have a leash. Their position, and one of my other running friends confirmed this, is that the brake isn't much use, its better to use your body weight to control the speed and forward motion. All in all, I'd recommend it and if and when I ever have kids I'd be favorably disposed towards this brand. Of course at this rate, the technology may have changed considerably. As a company they were very responsive with my order and rushed me the stroller in time for the shower. Funny, the box they ship it in is huge--why didn't they just collapse it and put it in a smaller box? I did not order the shade with the stroller because I waited until the baby was born to find out the name and have in embroidered on. All in all very nice. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& GENERAL OPINIONS AND COMMENTS -------------------------- I've used the Baby Jogger Baby Jogger. I own the model that Sears and Rareback sells, and can't imagine that the difference in quality is worth the difference in price. (Sears model $139) ************************************************* I'd highly recommend you not shop based on price. Why do I say this, you ask? My son is two years old (next month). I started out two years ago with a baby jogger I saw advertised in a catalog called "Heartland America." I choose this one because it was much less expensive than those I'd seen in local shops and other catalogs - about $129 at the time. Also, it appeared to be well constructed. Big mistake. The critical structural element was held in place by two aircraft nuts. But they never stayed tight! When my wife saw that I was running with a wrench in the pocket of the jogger, she pointed out that I'd taken my usual quest for the best price/value to the point of foolishness! I then went out and bought Motiv model that could also be attached to the seat post of a bicycle, as well as be a regular ol' three wheel jogger. Again, a mistake. The front wheel frame, since it was detachable for the bike option, was never really tight enough, and the entire contraption would shake rattle and roll when taking the slightest bump. So, my son and I now jog with a stroller from Racing Strollers, Inc. I paid much more that I ever planned, $295, but this one is light, solid, well-built and definitely a cut above the rest. Beside, baby # 2 is on the way and I plan many more years of running together. ************************************************ Consider seat style. Some are more sloped back and better for infants whereas other models have a more upright seat. Also, it's easy to bang little heads on the pipes that make up the sides of the stroller. An older toddler could deal with it, and a small baby's head much not reach the pipes but it's worth a thought to pack a blanket around the side of the stroller. ************************************************** I've not considered the combo bike/jogger strollers, mainly because they are even more expensive than the basic joggers and price is an issue for me. One other thing occured to me that you might want to look for: the better joggers have bicycle-like hand brakes, which seems like a nice safety feature. The cheaper brands usually have something like a strap that you wrap around your wrist, to prevent the thing from getting away from you. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& WHEN SHOULD A CHILD RIDE IN A JOGGER? ------------------------------- My daughter had her first ride in the baby jogger at three weeks of age. The three week wait was for me not her since she was born via the surgical method -- I'm sure she would have fared very well in the jogger even earlier. I did pack her in pretty good with blankets and head cushions to keep her from flopping around, and I always put the canopy up to keep the sun off of her. A ride in the jogger does wonders for quieting cranky babies anytime of the day or night. And it helps to reduce YOUR tension, too. As she grew I attached toys for her to grab and took a bottle along. Next came the cassette player with the "Disney songs" and "Wee Sing" tapes (and an occasional New Orleans jazz tape for me). One year for Halloween I dressed us both up as bats and turned the hot pink jogger into a Batmobile for a costume 5K. (Ok, I know, this is getting a little weird!) Now that she is almost three I take a baggy with cheerios for her to munch on. Those joggers are great! Good luck with the new little one, and happy trails! ************************************************** Our pediatrician suggested that we wait until our daughter is 6 months old before using one of these, but the sales brochures mention using them at 2-3 months. I'm tending to go with the MD's advice. Anyone had medical approval to use them earlier?